With the New Year, a new evolution of Meet the Maniac has emerged for your listening pleasure
Hello, everyone. I'm M.E. Beckley, but many of you know me simply as
on Substack.Today, I present to you Macabre Monday's first podcast episode, Meet the Maniac. Our first guest is the lovely
, who writes Kindling. Kindling is a newsletter, as Shaina puts it, for people with boring lives and active imaginations.Join us as we discuss how she joined Substack, Stephen King, horror, developing skills as an author, and who she's reading these days.
I hope you all have as much fun listening to this as I did when recording it. Feel free to tune in to the podcast above or read the transcription of the interview below—or both!
Enjoy!
Okay, so how about we get a brief introduction about who you are and what you do on Substack?
Yeah, so I'm Shaina Read and I have a Subtack called Kindling, where I, it's kind of a mixed bag. I review dark fiction. I cover issues of censorship, I write about authors and writing and I publish fiction.
So it's all fiction centered. Most of it's pretty dark, a lot of horror, but yeah, it's kind of my passion project, I guess you could call it.
So I'm a computer programmer by day, and, um, yeah, I have two kids and two dogs and I love the outdoors. I'm pretty funny, um, I think I like my jokes.
Thank you so much. Okay, so, I really like your Substack genuinely, but before we get into that, I would like to know how you got started on Substack and how long you've been on the platform using it.
Yeah, that's a good question.
I have, I have a couple of friends from high school, actually, and, you know, we don't see each other a whole lot anymore. but we keep in touch, and we were kind of like nerdy, artsy kids in high school. And so we've all gone on to, you know, we all have like our jobs that we have to do to support ourselves, but all of us are still doing art or writing or, you know, music, whatever it was, combination of those things.
So one of those friends, I had him over for dinner one night and he was talking about this new platform that he heard about. I think there were journalists that he liked that were writing on it and he said it's called Substack, and so I started getting his newsletter kind of just to support him and keep in touch with what he's been doing, and I got really curious.
So I started looking on the platform and I think I found L. Griffin, and saw that she was writing fiction. And I thought that sounds super interesting because at the time I'd been writing fiction for a couple of years, like I hadn't shared any story with anybody and wasn't really sure how to get kind of like feedback or a feeling of like how these stories would go over.
I was submitting them to magazines, but you know how that goes; it's a pile of rejection slips. So I thought I should just try this and see what happens.
So that was a little over a year ago, and I mean, I actually, I sat on it for about eight months. So I wanted to do it in January of 2022, and then I got really scared. So I finally published last August, I think was my first, my first time publishing, and I thought about quitting a handful of times since then. Just because it's the nature of the beast, I think.
But it's the people; I love the community of people on there. There's so many good writers. There's so much good fiction. So I'm kind of around just because I've made these really cool connections with other horror writers and horror fans and it was something that's missing from my everyday life.
So yeah, so I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.
It feels like being a part of a kind of the club you always wanted to join and in college or high school.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, so how did you get started writing?
Yeah, you know, I'm I, I always wrote like I had journals as a little kid. I was pretty shy so I read a lot and I think I started writing.
I read the Diary of Anne Frank in third grade, like didn't understand the majority of that book, but I loved that she kept a diary. I think that's what I took away when I was like 9 years old. That's all I got from that. And I used to write goofy little stories about my pets and things like that, but I got really discouraged later on in high school. There were just people better than me, and so instead of doing the work, I just went, oh, I'm not the best at that, so I guess I'm just not going to do that. That's not a viable option.
So like looking back, it's so silly.
But so relatable.
Yeah.
And I think it was because I had so many talented friends around me. I just was, you know, like I wasn't as good as them and a lot of them, I'm still not as good at writing as them. But that doesn't mean there's not a place for any of the stories. That's where my perspective has changed.
You know what I mean?
Like, I want to write these stories. So who cares? They're not as good as other people; of course not. But so I think I've always written, but I've gone through very long periods where I've given up or stopped or, you know, like, been too nervous to do it just kind of a baby about.
And so, oddly enough, computer programming, that's something that was so hard for me to learn and having learned that and I'm not the best at that either, but I'm pretty good at it.
That has made me realize that writing is a craft. It has to be worked at. I can't just expect. It's not really different from computer programming in a lot of ways. The practice has to be there.
So that's made me kind of buckle down and take myself more seriously. Even if I don't have success at it, I think that's the only way to get better. And you know, what's funny is like programming has a similar, like I realized because I think part of what intimidates people with any art is once you like look at the top of the top you get the gatekeepers like people who really believe like you either have this or you don't.
But that's the same thing in programming and I'm thinking like babies don't know math. Like that's ridiculous. You know what I'm saying?
It's so true.
Like of course there's other savants. Yeah, but most people are just learning it.
That's so interesting. So programming was kind of like a breakthrough for you; It really pushed you into your art. That's so interesting.
Yeah, I mean, in two ways.
One, because I'm not passionate about it, you know? I can do it for a day job. So it made me realize, oh, writing is really important to me.
Yes, like, this pays the bills and it's a good job and I like it. I like a lot of parts of it, but it made me realize like, oh, I need to pursue. I need to try to do something with writing because I can't stop thinking about it.
You know, like I picked up a pen again at 32 years old. I got my computer programming degree late. It's like everything's late for me, you know, so it's like, okay, you need to do it. It’s now or never.
There's also no such thing as late when it comes to writing. I think that anyone can jump in at any time.
Yeah, and I agree because I've actually, that's a good point because Substack, there are a decent amount of people on there.
Like there's a couple of 80 year olds who are like, I just love it. And they're good writers. You know what I mean?
Yeah! So you mostly, so you stick with fiction. Fiction is your thing, but you're mostly kind of a horror based Substacker, right?
Yeah. Yeah, I asked myself that a lot, because I definitely, like in my normal life, people are really shocked—and not in a good way.
Like, I don't think I've had, including my family, like people are my, my family, they subscribe to my Substack, and they're pretty worried. They're reading my stories going like, what is wrong with you? Like, why are you thinking about this?
Um, so why horror? I've loved it since I was a little kid. Like I used to sneak out and, you know, watch movies that my parents were watching. The Shining was my first behind the couch little flick that I watched at five, which is way too young. It was totally traumatizing, but I don't know. I just loved it. I like to be scared.
I think my real life is like pretty boring, and so there's something to the excitement of horror. And I think too, I'm, I'm very bothered by evil, you know, like I, I have a hard time with it. I have a hard time with the reality that so many bad things happen in the world. And I think horror gives me a way to kind of examine the dark parts of humanity and human nature, why people do what they do without having to like go meet with serial killers and ask them, you know what I mean?
Like it's a safe way for me to explore what would people do if this happened? Or why would somebody do A, B, and C, and I can go as deep and dark as I want. And you can keep it fun too. It can be a fun, you know, like horror is so broad. Like there's so many layers to it. And I like so many aspects of horror, like the fun campy stuff, but then also like the really dark, scary, real stuff, you know.
So I think part of it too, is that I tend to be a fearful person. I have anxiety, you know, like about the state of the world. But yeah, so I think that it's just a way to process anxiety about the world. Like, I think it's, I think it's that for a lot of people, at least, but yeah.
Definitely. That's super interesting. I hear that from a lot of different horror writers that the interest comes from a what if perspective. But you mentioned Stephen King, which brings me to my next question. You have a Stephen King book club.
I do, yeah.
Where you explore all of his works. So tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah, I am, like, I'm kind of obsessed with Stephen King. It's embarrassing. I hope he never knows.
Like, my husband likes to make jokes, because I have asked him things like, did you know he was, he's over six feet tall? He's like, I didn't know that and I don't care. So that shows the level. It's a little, it's a little much. But all of that to say, yeah, I love his writing.
I like I don't even want to like it because it feels almost not cool to like Stephen King at this point because he's so big. But yeah, I love the way that he writes people. I love his villains. I love, I just, I love that his books are centered around love and friendship, like the people that beat the monsters. Typically, you know, they're like kind of normal little weaklings and they come together and it's through like this greater goodness or purpose that they that they kill Pennywise or whatever it is.
Yeah, I love Stephen King. And I think he's, I don't know, I think he was like, pretty daring to like a lot of the works that he wrote. Maybe it's not anymore, but I think when they were written, you know, like Carrie, like all the religious elements there. I would imagine that was kind of hard to write. I don't know.
He wrote like a story about a girl getting her period in the shower. Like that's not easy for a man to write, you know what I mean? So, and I think he did a pretty good job. You know, like he captures a lot of things really well. He's so good.
Definitely, and he's not all dark either. There's a collection of short stories I read, and you probably would know them and I can't remember the title of them. One was about it's like a federal a CIA agent who's in a country in South America who survives torture and escapes. You know the one I'm talking about?
I do and I can't remember the collection that's in but yeah, he definitely has and his later works too have gone kind of all over the place. Which some people hate, but he's a good literary writer too like he has a little bit of a literary bent for sure in a lot of his work so I think I like that too, that he's just, he's sci-fi, he's, you know, which I don't, I don't like his sci-fi as much as his horror, for sure. But yeah, have you ever read Lisey's story?
No, I don't think so.
That one's a weird, it's so good.
I love that. But it's a great example of like, it's really scary, disturbing, but like, very beautiful. He can do that too sometimes. And I love when horror can can kind of mix those worlds, you know what I mean? We're in the one moment you're like in awe of whatever and then the next people are being eaten by, you know.
But that's modern horror. That's it. It doesn't have to be pure horror. There's a book that's on my TBR and it's supposed to arrive today in the mail called Between Two Fires, which is both fantasy and horror, and I love, I love that overlap so much.
I do too.
But you mentioned discomfort, like pushing boundaries and all of that, which seems to be a prominent theme on your website. You're really interested in that exploration of literature. You're like, if you're uncomfortable, good, because you like to discuss censorship and banned books.
I would love to know more about that. That is really interesting to me.
Yeah. Some of it comes from, so I was a fundamentalist Christian for, I don't know, a long time, 15 years, maybe. And so coming out of that is extremely difficult out of any fundamentalist belief. And I don't think it just has to be religious. It's just whatever you hold to be the absolute truth about the world with no question, right?
And no science and no, and not even science, but just know, maybe you haven't even thought it through, because that's how I was, at least I hadn't thought through why I believe things I just took, you know, so and so said this, I have to believe it. That's what I believe. That's how I live my life.
Um, so coming out of that was really hard and, and part of me, um, not writing was a result of those beliefs. Like I, I think one of my first posts I posted about it's, you know, cheesily named “How Stephen King Saved My Life”, but it's a little bit true. It's really how Stephen King made me write again. And it's all part of that journey. It's like for all of us, right? It's always wrapped up in some personal whatever that we're working through.
So anyway, fundamentalism. I restricted myself a lot. I didn't allow myself to read anything that didn't go with a very specific theology, including Christian authors, like I, you know, if they didn't subscribe to my exact way of viewing the world, I didn't read them. I didn't listen to music that didn't align with that. I didn't watch movies. I mean, it was so limited. And I wasn't raised that way; I chose it.
So that's even weirder to think about, you know?
Yeah, so trying to figure out why did I do that? How did I so easily believe something without ever really thinking it through and how can I prevent myself from doing that again?
Because once you've, it's, I imagine people that join cults must feel this too, right? Where you go, I, I'm not a stupid person. Why did I believe so-and-so about everything that they said?
Like realizing that I have that tendency has made me very cautious of my own biases, prejudices, uh, like the things that I think are true. And so I, I use literature media. I use it to make myself uncomfortable to go like, do you really believe that? Or is that really true? And I think that that should be a big part of reading. I mean, it doesn't have to be, but I think it could help.
Like I see so many of the issues in our culture being that we are listening to one side of a story and we probably should be listening to like 50 sides of that story, you know what I mean?
Yeah, so that's, that's why I'm really passionate about it, because I feel like it helped pull me out being able to empathize, hear other perspectives realize there's good people that don't think exactly like I do. And there's bad people that think exactly like I do. And what does that mean about the world? You know, and in my everyday life, I can't expose myself to all those ideas, so books are the way that I do it.
So interesting. So how did you get into Macabre Mondays?
Well, I, um, actually told me about it. He's such a good like community center point. Like he brings so many people together.
So, um, yeah, he tagged me in something and said, Hey, Shaina, you should participate in this. I was like, Oh my gosh, it's here! Cause I, I think I complained to him before too, that you know, I didn't know enough horror authors on Substack and I knew they had to be somewhere, you know, like it's not just me. Like, come on guys, where is everybody?
But horror is kind of a hard sell too, as you probably know, like it's very niche and it can mean so many things. I think people are very turned off by the idea of it. Like, at least that's what I encounter.
More than horror, I think fiction on Substack can sometimes be a hard sell.
Yeah, and I get it too. It's hard to read it. Like, there's not a good, especially serials, it is hard. Like, it's hard for me and I like them. I can only imagine if you're not super, you know what I mean?
You just see the viewership tank after the third episode or whatever. But do you see fiction taking off on Substack in a different way than maybe it has in the past?
Yeah, I don't know what it's going to look like. I think part of it really is just like if it could feel like an e-reader, like if there was an option for that, I think it would be so much easier.
That's interesting.
Yeah, because I think it's mostly just the feel like humans, I mean, every freaking website developer knows that like you'll lose people. I mean, if you just have one little thing that's like a little inconvenient, they're off, you know.
So, I think it's mostly that just having to, like I said, like, if I start in the middle of a serial having to like, find my way back to and authors do a great job of linking, but I'm like, God, wouldn't that be cool if you could just read it like a book? Because, yeah, I think that's kind of what and especially I don't know about you, but like, most of my readers are on email. Like, they're not gonna like, if they don't have the app, like the idea that they're going to scroll through their emails and find like my, yeah, I don't think it's happening.
Yes, and no matter how hard you push the app, in the emails, it is, it's significant. I think it's like 10% more for me, um, are on email. And I think, Oh, come on; I put so much effort to the website!
I know, I know they have no idea!
No, and it's very clear for you now. I understand you're, uh, you're, you're, you're a techie, but your website is so organized. It was very easy for me to, to access.
Oh, good. I hope so.
Yeah. And of course, , She's like made the whatever you want to call that really high. I was like, ooh.
That she’s set the bar.
Yeah, so I reorganized after I saw hers. I was like, that is smart. That's a lot better.
So she's really a trailblazer for fiction, I think, on Substack.
I think so, too, yeah.
Substack often talks about grassroots, but like she's usually the first person that I think of where I'm like, that's really from nothing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like, I think it's that's the coolest part about Substack, the idea that you can have a community with your readers. It's actually something I wasn't sure if I would like I was like, I'm not really sure if it's going to be healthy, like all those things, right? Because social media is whack so. and it's been so awesome.
Like it's, I can't believe how much I care about my readers. When I don't see them, I'm like, where is this person? They usually comment. Are they around? It's like, I feel like I have a relationship with them. So that part's been really cool.
You really do have a good, I would say, relationship with your subscribers. They're very involved.
They are, yeah. There's a few that I feel like, God, I'd love to meet them. You know what I mean? I wish we could have a book club in person.
Who on Substack do you read regularly?
Oh, there's a lot.
Michael Moore. So he has two substacks. He does write some fiction, but I-
The director?
No, I know. I always wonder if he gets... No, he's like, he has one newsletter that's kind of political. It's just kind of about like cultural topics and whatnot. And then he has another one that, of course, I can't remember the name of. But he wrote about his journey with his father's death. So his father had cancer. So I read that one and it's really, really beautifully written, super raw. So yeah, I appreciated that so much.
, cause I adore him. He's on Substack. Yeah, I read his, one of his banned books. Like it's banned constantly by school districts and reviewed that before I realized he was on Substacks. So that was a really fun experience.
, Jibberish, writes Jibberish.
Yes, we have to tag Scoot in this! He's been mentioned now.
Yes, we do. Yeah, I read your stuff, Maya.
Oh, really?!
I do, yeah.
Oh, no, I’m so flattered.
Yeah, you're a rising horror star on Substacks. I like that you said you write everything too. I was like, oh, in my mind, you're a horror author.
Oh, wow!
Ben Wakeman, are you familiar with him? He just, he just hosted a, I think he called it like an exercise in empathy, where he had writers who write, yeah, he writes Catch and Release. I love his stuff.
Okay, , I cannot forget about him. Do you know him?
Nathan Slake? Oh, I, okay—I thought—I'm also like you. I follow a lot of people, so I get I get mixed up. I think so though. I think I do follow him.
Okay, Nathan. He's British and he writes these magical—his stories are so beautiful. So you should tag him because he really deserves. He really deserves it.
And then , if you're familiar with him.
Oh, yes.
Like really scary. I really like his stories; they scare me.
Oh, 100%. The “The Werewolf of Mariahilf am Inn” is how I was introduced.
He wrote one—He was one of my first readers and one of the first writers I followed on Substack and—he wrote one where this, I don't want to give it away, but it just was so disturbing. It's like, I think it was a marionette. There's some title about a marionette, but anyway, it was extremely disturbing and I loved it. So, yeah.
Fantastic writer. Literally such a grip on atmosphere. Also one of the first ones I subscribed to and interacted with online. Sort of funny; we're living parallel lives here.
We are.
So that's a really good list.
Yes, there's a lot. I'm probably forgetting someone really important. I'm sorry guys, if I forget about you.
What are you working on right now?
So right now, behind the scenes, I haven't been writing as much fiction actually on Substack because I'm working on finishing a novel and I have to finish it. It's been in my brain for years and I finally outlined it in October, and so I have like the bones of the story. I've never outlined anything before, but I realized that I don't think I can write a novel without an outline—It's too scary.
So yes, so that is behind the scenes. That's where my energy is going. Because even if it's trash, if I can finish this, it's going to be huge.
So amazing. So to all our listeners, look forward to Shaina Read's novel coming out when? Maybe like a year, two years?
We’ll say two years.
Two years. So I think we’ll wrap it up now. Thank you so much again, this has been absolutely lovely. Besides Substack, where can we find you?
I’m on Instagram, I’m on Twitter, Facebook weirdly enough. I’m kind of old. I think that's it; thank God.
Shaina’s Website: https://www.kindlinghorror.com/
Fantastic! All right, well, we'll tag all of those places in our next newsletter coming out Monday, I think, this Monday. We'll find out. I'll find out. But again, thank you so much for your time and sharing yourself with us. It's been absolutely lovely.
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.
Your Weekly Horror Digest
shocked us all by sharing an interview he did with horror author Grady Hendrix, who wrote the best-selling book, Horrorstör.
That’s all I have for you this week! Check back in next Monday for The Cemetery and don’t forget about the Wicked Writing Contest!
Join the discussion on notes here on the Substack platform every Monday!
Stay Spooky.
If you are looking for another community project to be apart of, check out the ongoing Blackwater Files by The Chronicler! Click here.
If you are looking for people to follow on notes for Macabre Monday, check out all the people participating (updated list):
Meet The Maniac IV